Le Nature's - ICE Water, or ASS water?

Contents Background READ the Product Review Harassing Phone Call Cease and Desist Original Comments Your comments Contact

Read the Product Review

Workers' Comments (11/1/06 - 11/12/06). Workers: add your own comments

Insiders' Comments

• 11/1/06 - B. G. wrote me to say that Le Nature's is going to "file for Bankruptcy and that it appears the Co was after all fraudulent enterprise according to court documents. Their audited statements show about $275mm in revenues but the court appointed custodian says they can only show sales of about $32 million. Bonds went from 100 yesterday to 5 today."
• 11/2/06 - Another person wrote me who has once had business dealings with Le Nature's and said: "We decided to stop working with them after they began acting really crazy. We got a really bad feeling from them, but we had no idea that it was a huge fraud case. I have to say that it makes sense in retrospect."
  "I was searching the internet... and found your blog. I thought it was hysterical because all the stunts that they pulled on you were exactly how Bob Lynn and Gregory Podlucky conducted themselves with us, alternating between threats, self righteousness and bravado. The best part of the story is that Podlucky is a huge holy roller and a big Republican supporter. I think he even sits on a Republican congressional committee. He was always talking up his religiousness and what an upstanding guy he was. These guys are major-league crooks."
• 11/3/06 - An architect who worked on Le Nature's building wrote me and said, "I worked for an architectural firm that did the design of the new bottling facility (the giant blue masonry albatross), and when it was being built there were discussions of a 'secret room' where safes were kept. Now, supposedly, there's talk of just that...A search warrant produced nothing other than a 'secret room' with unopened safes. No one's commenting as to the content, but this soap opera's just beginning."
• 11/3/06 - As an addendum to the secret safes, a reporter, Adelene from Debt Wire, called me and later wrote to me with her article which said... "Meanwhile, the first two sources said Kroll had discovered two safes at the Latrobe plant, one of which contained some jewels and 50-60 gold watches. The watches are estimated to be worth around USD 1m while the value of the jewels was unknown at present, they both said."
• 11/4/06 - Anonymous commented, "Jay, if you only knew what went on there - they have just scratched the surface. Been there"
• 11/14/06 - Same architect wrote, "Greg lives in a town called Ligonier about 10 miles away from the plant. He built a gigantic house (the house that Le-Nature's built) - around 13,000 square feet. Greg always refers to the house as "the training center", probably because he wanted to write it off too. When the workers were building the house, Greg showed up on site and demanded that the Tyvek(r) housewrap be completely taken off of the house and be put on so that the lettering was right-side up. He kept a book of photos of the house's deficiencies (according to him) so that he could make the case that he didn't have to pay the contractors because of shoddy workmanship. What an ego! Also, I heard (unconfirmed) that when he was building the bottling plant, he wanted to put in an alter (or small chapel) so he could say that it was a house of worship and be tax exempt. I hope that whatever false god he's praying to smotes him and does us all a favor."

Background Summary

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Le Nature's Ice Water, or Ass Water?

Investigative Report

The Product Review (6/5/05)

How it all started

I was at the most ghetto version of a supposedly fancy hotel. Suddenly I was thirsty. Since the tap water there tasted like toe jam, I figured I could probably get some spring water from a vending machine for the low low price of $1.50.

To my horrific surprise, false advertising gave birth to a bottle of Le Nature’s “ICE ™ Water.” Let me make it perfectly clear that this water tasted almost exactly like purified rotten ass (aka it was yuckeeeee). I was so disgusted by the taste of ass in my mouth, that I have to tell you about the stink under the bed when it comes to this company.

Dirty marketing deceptions

Change of Company Name

Le Nature's is the new name for water sold by what was Global Beverages, which probably wouldn’t sound as good “Global Beverage’s ICE Water.”

Tunnel Pasteurization

They make a big deal about their water being “Tunnel Pasteurized” which (from what I can guess by reading the description on their website) just means they heat up the water in the bottle while it goes on a long conveyor belt through a “tunnel.” Wow that’s amazing!!! They must be stealing some of the top scientists from Cal Tech to think of taking Louis Pasteur’s idea from more than a century ago and make it happen in a “tunnel.”

Deceptive Water Source

Here’s what the label on my bottle looked like:

Actual photos of Le Nature's purified tap water

In one of the fragmented sentences describing their water, it says “From Pennsylvania’s cold mountain streams…” That would almost lead you to believe that they get their water from mountain streams. But wait a second, I took a virtual tour (scroll to bottom and click “take a tour") of their bottling plant, and a special part of their filtration involves removing “odor and chlorine” from the water. Is there really a lot of chlorine in mountain streams? I looked it up, and there isn’t naturally chlorine in streams. Typically if streams have chlorine, it’s from sewage treatment discharge. But still I’m not worried, because the most likely reason that their water has chlorine in it is because it’s probably tap water. Any water that’s not labeled spring or mineral typically comes straight from a municipal water supply (the tap). But I’m sure the guys from a nice sounding company like Global Beverages wouldn’t want to lie to us just to make money.

Making ICE WATER a trademark

Another thing: what the hell is this “ICE ™ Water” thing? TM = Trademark, and Trademark owners have the right to prevent others from using the same, or a confusingly similar mark. So I guess they have trademarked the word “ice"??? Now I won’t be confusing this new “ICE Water” product with any other ice waters I might want to drink.

"State of the Art" Touchscreen Technology

A dramatization of Le Nature's virtual tour

So their water tasted like simmering armadillo feces to me, and they seem to have lied to me on the label and treated me like a chump. But at least their packaging plant is using the state-of-the-art TOUCHSCREEN technology. After taking their virtual tour, I can rest assured knowing that they are using the exact same technology as my cafeteria lady: hairnets and touch screens (there’s a picture of an employee using the touchscreen while wearing a hairnet). They should publish that technique in a science journal! These guys seemingly are inventing new stuff so rapidly, they don’t have time to publish their results.

Disinformation

I was happy to find out by reading on the internet that Le Nature’s “utilizes radio advertising and a public relations effort to ‘educate’ consumers that Le Nature’s drinks are healthy because they’re pasteurized.” I didn’t put the word “educate” in quotes myself, that’s how it read on the PR site.

Implying that people from other countries are stupid

Dramatization of what Le Nature's corporate map might look like

I figured they had insulted me all they could for one day, until I read what they’re vice president, Bob Lynn, said:

“Americans are faddy and sometimes gullible, but they aren’t stupid, so fads that grow and maintain in other [countries] tend to have a very short life span in the United States.”

Even though I’m faddy and gullible, it’s good to know that I’m not as stupid as people from “other countries.”

The same technique used by drug dealers

Other news sources reported that Le Nature plans to use a “guerilla marketing campaign” to infuse their product into new markets, which includes handing out free samples to people on the street. Maybe they also decided to surprise hotel visitors with ASS Water when the button says spring water?

Our whole country is corrupt, so Le Nature's can be too? NO!

To be fair there are hundreds of water companies that bottle tap water, there are thousands of corporations that use deceptive marketing, and there are millions of people who think that the public is gullible and want to profit from that. Le Nature’s is just one example of American capitalism accomplishing the status quo. But that doesn't make it acceptable. For a less biased review of Le Nature’s beverage products based on more than one data point see here

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Epilogue

Threatening Phone Call (7/12/05)

Since writing this, I have been threatened by someone claiming to represent Le Nature’s and also informed by “anonymous”(aka probably the vice president of the company) that Le Nature’s is really good water.

The general flow of the threat call went something like this:
12:12 pm, 7/12/05 *Phone rings*

Them: Are you Jay Silver?

Me: Yeah

Them: Do you publish the stuff on your website?

Me: Yeah

Them: We like the stuff you wrote and want to publish it.

Me: Well that’s fine what did you like?

Them: *chuckle*

Me: Oh you think the water article is funny?

(Taking a meaner tone now that they are sure I have written the article)

Them: Look, you have until 5 pm to take down the website. You’ll hear from our attorney next and you’ll be court-martialed… someone will be kicking down your door to confiscate your server… (etc. etc. all kinds of threats, I forget what they all were)

Me: Will you send me an email telling me what you want done? could I have 24 hours instead of 5? You don’t have to threaten me, just reason with me and I’m sure we can work something out.

Them: You should your lawyer

Me: I don’t have a lawyer I’m a student with no money

Them: Even better we’ll sue you and bankrupt you. We’ve already run a background Check on you, we have all your info: address, phone number, everything.

Me: Who are you and what’s your number who can I contact.
(they told me their name but I couldn’t remember it since I was riding my bike)

Them: You can talk to our attorney Reed Smith here’s the number…
12:19 pm call ends

So obviously there was more than that said, but I can’t remember it all. It mostly consisted of them telling me to take my stuff down by 5 pm or else, and me saying who are you can I please have longer than that and please put it in writing.

I called the number to ReedSmith, who is not a person but a law firm, but it had been disconnected. I checked my website logs and ReedSmith had indeed been on my blog today, so I think it was really Le Nature’s calling me. Here are my logs:
rssm0119.reedsmith.com 3 21 155.04 KB 12 Jul 2005 - 14:14
paalto-apx-1-146-110.penn.com 1 5 42.61 KB 12 Jul 2005 - 13:51
rssm98.reedsmith.com 1 7 124.64 KB 12 Jul 2005 - 13:49
rssm15.reedsmith.com 3 21 373.92 KB 12 Jul 2005 - 13:39

Three visits from a ReedSmith.com host starting one hour and twenty minutes after they hung up the phone with me. The timing is impeccable. I think it’s got to be Le Nature calling me, not a prank, because no one else would know whether ReedSmith had accessed my site. As if they weren’t already making it easy for me, the night before the call someone posted a comment from Bob Lynn saying that Le Nature’s water is the best, and they spelled it Le-Nature’s like they do on their website. Then that person returned saying that they were a student, but it looked like they were just pretending to be a student. So I check those IP logs and they are from Pittsburgh which is 30 miles from Le Nature’s headquarters. So I filed a police report for harassment, and the Cambridge policewoman I spoke with said that what they did (on the phone) was illegal. I’ll take this as far as they want to. They really should have just emailed me a nice email showing me that despite the impression I got from reading online that they really are a nice company. Well… here you have it. It would seem that Le Nature's has now harassed me on the phone and hacked into my website. The night after the phone call my WordPress blog was hacked. And I'm supposed to believe that the IP which visits my webpage the most this month
w018.z064000120.pit-pa.dsl.cnc.net 143 309 5.36 MB 14 Jul 2005 - 11:53
is just a student who happens to live in the same area as Le Nature's headquarters?

Cease and Desist Letter Received by my Web Host (8/3/05)

Cease and desist galore

Original Comments (7/11 - 7/13 of 2005)

(I think they are from the V.P. of Le Nature's)

1. Le-Nature’s rules. I’ll bet you would have had a much better experience with a water called “Zephythills” though. Idiot.

   Comment by Bob Lynn — 7/11/2005 @ 7:51 pm |
   
   

2. Bob Lynn,
   Was that you on the phone today who called me threatening to have me court-martialed if I didn’t take down my page by 5:00? It was really mean. Maybe I just tried a bad bottle? There are much better ways of convincing me to take down my post. Having your henchmen call me on the phone, first pretending to like what I write on my site and asking to publish it, then telling me that I will hear from their attorneys and that someone will break in my door and lots of other threats, this is not a good way to get me to take down my post.

   Comment by Jay — 7/12/2005 @ 2:09 pm |
   
   

3. No. The first comment was not made by Bob Lynn. I only used his name because of the quote that you took out of context. I thought that was sort of funny. I have no affiliation with the Company whatsoever. However, I was searching for images for a school project when I came across your “weblog” or whatever you computer fags call it. I just thought it was such an immature waste of time to review ICE WATER. I mean for real dude, how could plain water tatse so bad that you would be inspired to write a fucking review? And by the way, your review inspired me to try Le-Nature’s Ice Water, and I have to tell you that it is without question the best bottled water I have ever had. I also think it is fucking hilarious that somebody threatened you. But you are obviously a really cool guy and tough too so you can rebel and keep it posted. You look like the kind of guy that would have been a little bitch on the phone too. Cool facial hair. Lastly, I just wanted to post my own satirical review: your girlfriend is fucking nasty you should do us all a favor and take those pictures down dude. Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.

   Comment by Anonymous — 7/12/2005 @ 4:32 pm |
   
   

4. …also a suggestion for you jay: maybe if you stopped licking ass the water wouldn’t taste like ass. Do you have this same problems with other beverages after you lick ass? Maybe the ass residue is dwelling in your cool facial hair. You could try shaving that too. I just want you to enjoy your bottled water.

   Comment by Anonymous — 7/12/2005 @ 5:46 pm |
   
   

5. It’s funny that you type Le Nature’s as “Le-Nature’s” with a dash, since I never referred to it that way. But on Le-Nature’s site they like to refer to it that way. I think that you’re probably affiliated with Le Nature’s. The other reason is: why would you be checking back the next day if you were just looking for some images? Unless you were checking constantly to see if I had taken down my site yet because you are from Le Nature’s marketing department. You have a similarly cruel tone. Oh, and you know what else is funny? The posts you put up all came from a Pittsburgh IP address! Now, I wonder where Le Nature’s is located. It couldn’t be near Pittsburgh. That would just mean that you, Bob Lynn, realized you never should have signed your name to your first comment now that you decided to threaten me on the phone, decided to backtrack and sign my guestbook twice more pretending to be a student. Oh my goodness, I just looked up where Le Nature’s headquarters is. It’s directly outside of Pittsburgh in Latrobe, 30 miles down the road. But hey that’s just one more coincidence right? As for the insults, I can’t really argue. I am pretty much just a computer fag with “cool facial hair” who’s a little bitch on the phone with a nasty girlfriend. I’m also stupid and scronny and won’t ever amount to much. And as you’ve pointed out, I also lick ass, and that is probably why the water tasted bad. I’m trying to do better. I always thought that being homosexual was okay (yes, I lick not only the ass of my girlfriend but also men), but now that you point it out, I guess homosexuals are bad people and licking ass should be something I’m ashamed of.

   Now, as for taking your quote out of context, I linked your quote to the full context so anyone who wants can see the whole article. But in short the quote was taken out of an article that was about trends in the beverage industry. You were saying that the long term trends in the water industry will be to sell water, not fads like flavored water. So really I wasn’t trying to refer to the context at all. In any context, I don’t think it’s fair to imply that people in other countries are stupid. That attitude is part of the nationalism that contributes to American imperialism. I’m sorry if you think I took him out of context. I didn’t intend to.

   Now since you have “no affiliation with the Company” (though you do like to capitalize the word company) and you are doing a “school project” please check back soon. I am honored that you would be a part of my faggy weblog. By the way, how’s Pittsburgh? It looks like it’s almost 90 degrees there now. Which college do you go to? What types of classes are you taking? Do they teach about alternate perspectives? That was something missing from my undergrad that I really wish my school would have taught better. I hope they’re doing it at your school. I’m sure we can see eye to eye. I can’t say I understand why you think my girlfriend is nasty, or why you would tell me that, but maybe I can learn to understand? My facial hair is already different than it was in the Le Nature’s picture, so maybe you will like it now.

   Comment by Jay — 7/12/2005 @ 5:55 pm |
   
   

6. Nasty? Amazing. You mean like Le Nature’s water? Yummm, I bet I taste like ass too!

   xo

   Comment by jodi — 7/13/2005 @ 10:24 am |
   
   

7. hahahaha…woah…the weather channel says it is nice in pittsburgh…but since i live about 80 miles from pittsburgh i can’t say for sure…now i suppose in addition to being a beverage critic you are also a meteorologist and a computer…oh wait we have already established your computer fagness…sorry about that…but for real…most ip addresses show the name of the city where there is a major C.O. or hub…its actually kind of funny because while you may know the general area in which i live, i know your exact addresses…btw…i’m not sure what police precinct you guys deal with but i’m pretty sure they are not very familiar with trademark infringement, using screen caps from a company’s website without written consent, etc…i can’t wait to see how this all turns out for you…as for the girlfriend thing…that was out of line…she is really hot…you guys are like the tom cruise/katie holmes of the underground…since you have all of my “info” now (the next thing you’ll be telling me is that i use verizon dsl…wow that’s a tough one to figure out…only good computer people know how to figure that shit out)…why don’t you send me an updated picture…i’m sure it is magnificent…peace out cambridge…maybe i’ll send a smoke signal later

   Comment by Anonymous — 7/13/2005 @ 10:29 am |
   
   

8. jodi…are you starting to see the connection now? that comment was totally out of line…i am a line stepper…a habitual line stepper…i was really making fun of you because i am jealous of jay silverstein for having such a hot girlfriend…i wish you and i could get it on…but i am not of jay’s caliber good looking…sorry

   Comment by Anonymous — 7/13/2005 @ 10:34 am |
   
   

9. Bob,

   Why would I be scared that you have my exact address? It’s posted clearly on my website. My facial hair is really really cool now. You know what would be the funniest. We should get together and hang out cause that would be really ironic. Then we could tell the whole story to people and laugh.

   Comment by jay — 7/13/2005 @ 11:09 am |
   
   

10. scared? come on jaybird…don’t be scurrrred…i never said you should be scurrrred…you continue to misquote people…for the record…don’t be scared…i am not bob lynn…and i do not make idle threats…if i was bob lynn don’t you think i would be at work right now dissing foreigners? protest that beotch

    Comment by jay silver…investigative reporter, meteorologist, computer fag, beverage critic, loving bf — 7/13/2005 @ 11:32 am |
    
    

11. Bob,

    Ligonier isn’t 80 miles outside of Pittsburgh, but it is 10 miles from Le Nature’s headquarters. But I quit over and out. I’m sorry if I upset you. In all seriousness I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. Yours sincerely

    Comment by jay — 7/13/2005 @ 11:38 am |
    
    

12. jay do you work for the cia? your massive collection of knowledge about me is overwhemlming…quit? quit what? boooooooo…i was having so much fun too…damn

    Comment by Anonymous — 7/13/2005 @ 11:48 am |

Information I've Received Since Posting this Article

# February 9, 2001, From OU:
Brand: Le Nature's
Product: Various Beverages
Company: The Le-Nature's Water Company, Latrobe, PA
Issue: Product bears an unauthorized OU symbol and is not certified as kosher by the Orthodox Union.
Source: Kashrus Alerts

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Comments From Readers (8/6 - 9/10 of 2005)

The following comments are from the general internet public and shouldn't be construed as the opinion of any institution or of Jay, but only of the person who is making the comment.

1. Fred Morrison Says:
August 6th, 2005 at 11:11 pm e

Jay,

Maybe you should have pulled a Cheney and said “go fuck yourself”. Free speech? Oh, that shit got the push once the Republicans got all branches of the government in a tidy little bundle, all to themselves.

But hey, no worries–since you didn’t include the all-important hyphen in this crybaby company’s name, it gives you a technical out, right?

I wish I could offer some helpful advice, but all I can add is corporate rat-fuckers need all the criticism which can be directed their way. For what it’s worth, I’m pulling for you.

Keep fighting.

Regards,

Fred Morrison
Merritt Island, FL


2. mom Says:
August 7th, 2005 at 5:29 pm e

you go boy, mommy is proud of you, just watch yo ass, and eat your oatios, lov mom


3. Bob Says:

August 8th, 2005 at 12:17 pm e


LMAO - A bottled water company doing all that to some guy writing in his blog? LMAO!

They must really be hurting for business.


4. concertcrazy Says:
August 8th, 2005 at 12:18 pm e

Nice work Jay keep it up . Don’t let this f-stick get away with this. “Stand up for your rights”Bob Marley.
This fat cat is trying push us people around. Don’t give up Later man,cole


5. JWalker Says:
August 8th, 2005 at 12:41 pm e

Everything I ever here from you (and your brother) makes me more and more proud of Joel.

I have the utmost respect for all that you stand for and strive for.

I think it’s time we started taking the world back. One Jerk-Off at a time if need be.

Continue your fight and your spirit and if there is anything I can ever do to help facilitate you in further altercations. Just let me know. (The ole man knows how to reach me)

Sincerely
Jason W Walker
A/V consultant and Programmer.

BTW I always thought the ole lady was a Fox.

“It’s Gonna be a Glorious Day, I feel my luck could change”
RADIOHEAD.


6. boxdrummer Says:
August 9th, 2005 at 11:01 am e

Jay, you’ve done a great job w/these jerk-offs! And, you do know your water…seeing as you were brought up drinking bottled water your whole life!! They must think they are fooling w/some krazy kollege kid, but they don’t realize who they’ve messed with! KEEP ON TRUCKIN’…and they can put their ass water right up there!….dad


7. salado Says:
August 10th, 2005 at 3:24 pm e

$1.50 for tap water… that company is bullshit… it’s totaly true about most bottled water being from a municiple source (tap water).
heres a cool link on a show called bullshit who exposes bottled water compinies who want you to believe that thier water is somthing its not.
http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=bw

expose them for what they are


8. MG Says:
August 23rd, 2005 at 4:43 pm e

Hey if you were trying to sell something that is free…you’d be selfconcious too. I should bottle the water drippin off my ball sack…Le natural sack water


9. db Says:
August 30th, 2005 at 2:19 pm e

HI Jay,

Great Review! I think you have every right to be enraged by the Company. I am NEVER going to by Le-Nature ICE Water. I think they should publish an apology on their web-site for trying to intimidate you. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!



10. dangermoose Says:
August 30th, 2005 at 2:47 pm e

stick it to the man! don’t take their shit, keep shoving it back up their asses.


11. Anonymous Says:
September 3rd, 2005 at 4:19 pm e

nice jay- go get em. You must admit there are a lot of gullible americans cause the bottled water juggernaut is still crankin. Tap water is fine and Cocoa Beach has some of the best in Brevard. But no, oh my god NO NO, I must have a Bottle of water. The FASTCAN Man


12. Jawarlahoo Says:
September 8th, 2005 at 1:54 pm e

Jay, it’s into Sept., but upon checking the surf, I read your whole jammie on this “Le Nature’s” tap I mean bottled water. What a stupid name, and I’m part French. You or they could’ve just called it “The 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen” and that is telling the truth, except for the estranged nasty particulates IN the water. I will never buy this water, unless false advertising does the same thing to me, plus I hate Pittsburgh, except for the Steelers. I’ve never been to Pitts, it’s just a freedom of speech thing.

So, I wonder if, there’s any way that the guy in PA that was sending correspondence back to you in a malicious way could have been the VP’s son and was actually waiting for his father’s death in order to gain some investment or finances otherway, and was “fighting” to keep the brand name of “Le-Nature’s” in a good standing, all without having a single drop of intelligence when it comes to AD/PR? Or am I delusional. Who said that? Awww, fuggit.
I wonder if another company will spawn some sort of water in New Orleans (that’s not funny, seriously, but IS a figure of FREE SPEECH), and will that “Company” be “Le-Nature’s”, or perhaps “Le-When-Nature-Attacks” brand bottled hurricane water. Sorry, n o t funny.
Seriously, about New Orleans and the surrounding, may God bless those there and provide strength and speed to their recovery. You can donate, and I heard on the news that Red Cross is best because they have one of the lowest overhead costs to run the organization, so most of the money actually makes it to the ones in need. Thanks fer readin, and now it be time to have a warm cup of good ole’ reverse osmosis water!!


13. RioBob Says:
September 10th, 2005 at 8:12 am e

MMMmmmmmMMMMmmmmmMMMMmmmmmm Ass Water !!! Where can I get me some o dat chit?

Comments were then closed until 11/1/2006. See new comments and add your own comments here:

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The Same Disclaimer Again

I can't yet prove that it was Le Nature's or Bob Lynn who called me or hacked my site, although the evidence seems overwhelming to me. All statements above are, for now, my opinions. Also, and I know this might sound crazy, but since everything I said in this product review is also only my opinion, feel free to form your own. For example, you might form the opinion: "Le Nature's uses real mountain stream water, and state of the art technology." (note: you'd be wrong).

Contact

My direct contact:
more contact

Letter to Le Nature's (8/2005)

I wrote this letter to Le Nature's but never received a reply:
I am very sorry to bother you with this request, but I need to be pointed in the right direction. I am a student at MIT who has a personal website that has a review of water on it. In the past 48 hours I have received a threatening phone call (your door will get kicked in, we'll sue you into bankruptcy, etc.) from people claiming that ReedSmith is their lawyer and claiming to represent Le Nature's. Then ReedSmith.com was all over my web logs, which led me to believe that maybe the call was not a prank. Then my website was hacked. Could you please confirm if Le Nature's deals with ReedSmith for legal advice, and whether you are currently working on a case involving me? If you are not, that means someone is using your name, vice presdient of Le Nature's Bob Lynn's name, the ReedSmith name, and the ReedSmith.com domain name falsely. If you are, I'd like to know.