[A moderately choppy history of the xpix collection, as related in the "discuss" (a somewhat interactive MIT bulletin board program) system, plus a few other items] Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu [0036] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/18/88 01:34 (20 lines) Subject: X10 can be better!! Well, even though I always use X11R1, which is great, there is one particular reason why I still like X10. Have any of you ever seen the screen dumps in X10. If not try the following and I guess you might even agree with me : xswitch uwm & attach panda rehash cd /mit/panda/Xpics In that directory, there are a lot of files of all types ... G, PG, PG-13, R and even X-Rated! Pick your choice and do the following : xwud -in .dmp Enjoy!!! - Ilham. --[0036]-- (nref = [0037]) [0037] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/18/88 11:51 (17 lines) Subject: Re: X10 can be better!! Two comments: 1) why the rehash? you aren't running anything in his homedir... 2) Using an (experimental) protocol converter, I used the x10 xwud to display them on my x11 display. That could be used to convert them to x11... I think there is also a converter program, but I am not sure. He does have some neat pictures, but he also has a bunch of files that are 0 length. I wonder if he knows about that... 3) He probably should compress them. It would save a lot of disk space, avg. about 50% for bitmap files... it isn't that hard to use zcat cindy.dmp.Z | xwud instead of xwud -in cindy.dmp ... he would just have to go to that directory and do a compress -v * and they would shrink, listing how much they were shrinking. _Mark_ --[0037]-- (pref = [0036], nref = [0038]) [0038] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/18/88 12:23 (23 lines) Subject: Re: X10 can be better!! Mark, you said two comments but you gave three. Sorry, I couldn't resist, after all this is Athena_Flames. (1) As for the rehash, I though it was for rehashing the directory tables that csh keeps. Anyway, I just type it in just to be on the safe side!!! (2) That is a great idea. Making the screen dumps to X11 will be great then I can say goodbye to X10 forever. Also, I can then get those screen dumps printed in the Postscript printers instead of running to europa or ln03-37-312!!! (3) As for the third comment. Well, I don't happen to know him/her personally but if (s)he read this (s)he will know!! I kniow that there are some empty files. There I guess were there but are no longer - I would have loved to see the madonna one!! Anyway, I hope everything is changed to X11 even though it is ***slow***!! Why is this so slow? The games, (xtank - X11 version) runs 3-5 times slower! Then again I might not forget X10 if this hold out to be true!! - Ilham. --[0038]-- (pref = [0037], nref = [0039]) [0039] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/18/88 14:55 (17 lines) Subject: Re: X10 can be better!! 1) it does, but the ``tables'' are the directories in your $path... I really doubt you have anything in /mit/panda in your path. It isn't likely, anyway. 2) The x11 version of xpr should work on the x10 bitmaps! 3) Chris Reed (panda) lives in New House II, and is (was) a watchmaker. Some of the women here in the SIPB office complained that there weren't any pictures there for THEM to look at... maybe they can try to convince him :-) I am going to try and use the fullmoon as a root window bitmap. Hmm... I think Chris Casey had a program to do that, but I can probably write it before I can find him... X11 is slow because hasn't had the years of improvement that X10 has. Just looking at the speed improvments on fonts (xterm used to run slower than a 4800baud terminal!) _Mark_ --[0039]-- (pref = [0038], nref = [0043]) [0040] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 00:09 (37 lines) Subject: X10 window pictures I'm the person who created those X window dumps. There's no reason why they're in X10 now, except that converting them isn't very high on my list of things to accomplish. A protocol converter won't do the trick, as some of the pictures are larger than a DEC screen. Most were created by directly manipulating bitmaps, so no windows were involved. Some notes: 1) Many are converted Macintosh pictures, some (the fractals) were created directly from programs. Others are from miscellaneous places. The fractals have been removed from my copy of the collection, as they took up a great deal of space and can easily be recreated for an arbitrary number. 2) The current versions (the stuff in /mit/panda is a bit old) live in E40-388-1:/site/sethf/dmp. No guarantees concerning the permanency of that location. My filesystem only has 600K and I regularly deal with files of megabyte size. This sometimes creates problems. 3) Regarding the concerns of women : I have never seen an analogous male picture in digitized form. In the interests of balance, I would gladly add a few to the collection, if someone sent them to me. 4) There are reasons for the lack of compression. It's a long story. 5) X11 xpr won't work on x10 dumps. The formats are quite different. In E40-388-1:/site/sethf/bin is a program called x10pr that will make postscript files from the dumps (x10pr -device ps ....). Once upon a time these took 10-20 minutes to print, due to the cluster printers being crippled, but now printing time is only about 3 minutes. That's another story. 6) I probably won't have the time to do the X11 conversion for a while. Any volunteers? ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu sethf%athena.mit.edu@mit-eddie.UUCP mit-eddie!mit-athena!sethf --[0040]-- (nref = [0042]) [0042] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 02:01 (11 lines) Subject: Re: X10 window pictures Well, more pictures - GREAT! The additional pictures in /site/sethf/dmp is great. Atleast all the pictures work! Also the x10pr command comes in helpful. Thanks Seth. As for the women member of our community, well I don't know, I didn't put those pictures there! Hopefully some will come along! I would love to volunteer to transfer these to X11. Just point me the way and off I go! After all being a freshman has it advantages - all the time (nearly) in the world! Also, how do you create these pictures, digitized??? - Ilham --[0042]-- (pref = [0040]) [0043] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 02:08 (17 lines) Subject: Re: X10 can be better!! Thanks for the info. Now the Athena_flames really seems to be hitting off. How can the slowness of X11 be reduced? The new pictures are great! Well, Seth has already mentioned what I was going to say. xpr in X11 does not work with x10 dumps. I have tried it before. Mark, the idea for the fullmoon background is great. I was also thinking along the same line but didn't know how to do this in the workstations. Where is the bitmap for the background held for the `normal', dull background that the workstations come with. Also, how would you change it!!! Could you send me a copy of your program when you do make it. Thanks! Well time to add another flame. Read on for the next transaction! - Ilham. --[0043]-- (pref = [0039]) [0052] ambar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 12:52 (7 lines) Subject: window dumps get it right... it's not "woman", singular, it's "women", plural -- and if someone will point me at a decent digitizer, I'll be happy to do the necessary research :-) AMBAR --[0052]-- (nref = [0053]) [0053] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 13:02 (3 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps Well, we can bring dkk's camera back to E40... but I think it is low-res, so you'd have to get REAL CLOSE and then splice stuff together... hehe... --[0053]-- (pref = [0052], nref = [0054]) [0054] ambar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 13:06 (7 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps I was thinking more along the lines of appropriate materials 'liberated' from the Combat Zone. Were you volunteering as a model? AMBAR --[0054]-- (pref = [0053], nref = [0055]) [0055] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 13:08 (7 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps But I don't have anything sexy to WEAR... hmm. Maybe I shouldn't have said that... Maybe this should followup to redhead_maintenance :-) --[0055]-- (pref = [0054], nref = [0056]) [0056] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 13:32 (4 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps well, you don't have to *wear* anything ... if you're real good at it. :) --[0056]-- (pref = [0055], nref = [0058]) [0058] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/19/88 22:27 (13 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps Ah, it is time to tend to our women (mark the plural this time) community!! Now all we need is volunteers and since Mark is volunteering...???. How about getting it from the abundant number of great movies that are available and digitizing them!! As for my previous tranactions, the spelling and grammar mistakes are intentional to test the M-x spell-buffer and also the diction command so no comments about that, period ;-) !!! - Ilham --[0058]-- (pref = [0056], nref = [0059]) [0059] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/20/88 15:27 (11 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps Ilham sez: >Ah, it is time to tend to our women (mark the plural this time) >community!! Now all we need is volunteers and since Mark is >volunteering...???. How about getting it from the abundant number of >great movies that are available and digitizing them!! I just thought it was time to give the men equal time. Who said women were the only ones who appreciated the male form? :) -- Henry -------- --[0059]-- (pref = [0058], nref = [0062]) [0062] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/20/88 21:13 (17 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps Oops, sorry Henry .... my apologies!! So repeating my previous transaction : --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah, it is time to tend to our women (mark the plural for the ***second*** time) community and anyone else interested in looking at the male form :-)!! Now all we need is volunteers and since Mark is volunteering...???. How about getting it from the abundant number of great movies that are available and digitizing them!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Better????? - Ilham --[0062]-- (pref = [0059], nref = [0064]) [0064] paul@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 00:18 (22 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps If someone comes up with a setup that rotates various color pictures on an idle display, than yields to a login window and solid-blue background when a key is struck, then takes over again when the user logs out, it would be great for the Fishbowl. We could have a big digitizing binge session. Think of all the things that could come on the screen when you log out: -various WB cartoon characters -Kirk & Spock -the new Enterprise crew with a red "NO ____" circle/slash over them -a real closeup of Jeff's face -some wavo haircut British pop band (aleonard would help here) -Dave and Maddie of course -Donna Rice with a few well-placed xclocks -the inevitable CAD/CAM pseudo-3D stuff for visting funding committees, sigh -Paulina (stretched across two adjacent displays) You get the idea. Those machines can't run toehold for some reason known only to yba (and kit?). Any ideas? Mr Paul Vaxbooter to the Stars --[0064]-- (pref = [0062], nref = [0066]) [0066] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 02:36 (5 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps You missed the point, ilham. Will someone spell this one out for him? -- H ---- --[0066]-- (pref = [0064], nref = [0069]) [0069] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 02:59 (9 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps So, you still think that it is not right.... Okay, please send me a draft of what I should write then.... and I will amend my transaction for the THIRD time! And as for spelling it out, please do, that even might help for my fourth amendment.... :-) - Ilham. --[0069]-- (pref = [0066], nref = [0074]) [0074] raeburn@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 04:07 (4 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps You mean Jeff Schiller, Paul? We've got a real old picture of him somewhere in the SIPB office. Maybe we could use DKK's digitizer. "The one, the only..." --[0074]-- (pref = [0069], nref = [0075]) [0075] raeburn@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 04:09 (1 line) Subject: Re: window dumps How about a big "X11 -- just say NO!" sign? :-) --[0075]-- (pref = [0074], nref = [0080]) [0080] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 04:36 (17 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps Again ... (after receiving mail from Henry) ... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah, it is time to tend to the admirers of the male form ;-) !! Now all we need is volunteers and since Mark is volunteering...???. How about getting it from the abundant number of great movies that are available and digitizing them!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Better yet, or should I have the 4th amendment??? - Ilham. --[0080]-- (pref = [0075], nref = [0081]) [0081] jtkohl@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 09:51 (4 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps The reason the Parallax machines can't run toehold is that they don't have a 'stupid terminal' mode to use. The RT's and VAXen can use their consoles as glass tty's when not running X, the parallax as configured at Athena can't. --[0081]-- (pref = [0080], nref = [0085]) [0085] ambar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 20:10 (12 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps Personally, I don't think we need to be 'tended to': with a little help from one's friends (like DKK & Mark Eichin), we can do quite respectably for ourselves, thank you... Seth: /site/sethf/X/bit.c appears to be the MacPaint->X10 translator; is that correct? (on Dave Custer's machine). Mark: do we have an X10->X11 translator yet? AMBAR --[0085]-- (pref = [0081], nref = [0086]) [0086] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 23:20 (23 lines) Subject: Re: window dumps The program "bit.c" is a general bitmap -> X10 converter, and can also be used for some bitmap manipulations (such as inverting or changing byte order). The relevant settings for Macintosh and CCC (Concourse Computer Center) bitmaps are specific options for the program. When I wrote it, I thought "This is truly a UNIX command; it has options for dealing with ancient things from PDP's :-)". It's not a MacPaint pic translator, as Macintosh pictures are stored in a compressed format. They must be converted into pure bitmaps before they can become X window dumps (I have a utility on the PC-AT to do that). A translator wouldn't be hard to create, and I've many of the relevant code fragments. But since I already have some working programs, I've never written one. Speaking of CCC, I still have all their bitmaps stashed away. I didn't think those pictures (576x454) were good enough to justify keeping around on Athena (2 Meg), but if there is sufficient interest, I'll make them available. ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu --[0086]-- (pref = [0085]) [0087] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/21/88 23:58 (33 lines) Subject: Idle display program Regarding paul's suggestion for a color display program on the Fishbowl machines: I've had that idea for quite a while now, and have devoted some thought to it. There are difficulties with it, some obvious and some not. 1) Very appropriate for Athena_Flames: Athena seems loath to let any but a very few people use those machines. I see a dozen counter-flames about to appear now, telling about how expensive they are, and how they must be protected from theft and breakage risks. I understand this. The fact remains that their use is very restricted, and I've heard of no effort whatsoever to expand it. It seems to me a great waste for such equipment to sit idle. 2) Color pictures take up megaspace (pun intended). For each picture, (assuming 8 bits of color) 1024*864 screen resolution means 0.9 Meg per screen. Even using compress, that's still about (from experience) 150K per picture. Finding a home for these files is not trivial. 3) Finding or generating these pictures can be a major time investment. More if this discussion continues.... I've written a picture display program that does exactly what's being considered here for the IBM PC-AT. In fact, those window dumps were collected with the thought of extending the idea to X. But given the problems I had with the PC version, and recalling what a time-sink it turned out to be, the thought of scaling it up to X was daunting. ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu --[0087]-- (nref = [0088]) [0088] paul@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/22/88 01:35 (20 lines) Subject: Re: Idle display program Regarding the three issues you raised, Seth: 1) Access. There's a machine in an E40 carrel you could use, and VCG will gladly let you at the four working stations in the Fishbowl if you wanted to write this high-visibility program. By "you" I mean anyone who wants to do it. 2) Filespace. Only 150K per picture? We can handle that *easily*, especially for such a high-visibility project. 3) Difficulty: Well, true. You don't see *me* trying to write it. But think of all the faces pressed to the glass, think of the glory... Interested parties should contact me (paul) or Ben Davis (davis). We're really enthusiastic about this. --[0088]-- (pref = [0087], nref = [0089]) [0089] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/22/88 01:44 (5 lines) Subject: Re: Idle display program Oh, Paul! You truly are *our hero* :) -- h ---- --[0089]-- (pref = [0088], nref = [0090]) [0090] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/23/88 17:16 (11 lines) Subject: Re: Idle display program If there's support for the idea, I'd be willing to put a little time into writing the display program. Assuming one can use the necessary file space, and the system administrators aren't branding the work a 'waste of resources', the program involves much less aggravation. ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu --[0090]-- (pref = [0089], nref = [0094]) [0094] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/25/88 00:21 (15 lines) Subject: Re: Idle display program I now have a program, xroot, which takes an X11 window dump (NOT a bitmap, a real window dump) and embeds it in the root window. It will be `released' as soon as I get a filesystem name for the picture filesystem. I also have a program that converts x10 window dumps to x11 window dumps; it lost a little on certain ones, but that may be bugs at some other stage (xwud/x11 or the original files) and in any case, hand tweaking the bytes_per_line field solved the problem. Of course, since color isn't available in general (FLAME FLAME) I haven't tested xroot on color displays; maybe when color is more widely available (ie. in unlocked rooms; I am a watchmaker, and don't even have access to ANY color machines) I will, but otherwise I have put enough time into it for now. _Mark_ --[0094]-- (pref = [0090], nref = [0095]) [0095] paul@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/25/88 06:08 (6 lines) Subject: Re: Idle display program There's a color machine right across from Ben Davis' office. It spends a lot of time idle. Chris Peterson is getting color Any Day Now, as well. -Paul --[0095]-- (pref = [0094], nref = [0096]) [0096] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/25/88 06:15 (10 lines) Subject: Re: Idle display program Indeed there is a color machine. It is running X10. As I was saying... [Also note that Chris Peterson's office is locked; so is Tony DellaFera's, the only place I have actually seen an X11 color display...] --[0096]-- (pref = [0095]) [0097] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/30/88 11:16 (41 lines) Subject: The pictures you've all been waiting for... These pictures are now ``released''. Not by athena, just by me, do not construe this as support or anything. To get them: attach xpix All of them are compressed window dumps. To display a single picture, just do: zcat /mit/xpix/picture.dmp.Z | xwud -inverse All of them are inverse video, as a side effect of the conversion to X11. If you want to put one in your background, just do zcat /mit/xpix/picture.dmp.Z | /mit/xpix/bin${MACHTYPE}/xroot -i It will tile (fill repeatedly) the background, just like a bitmap used in xsetroot would. There will eventually be a man page for xroot. There is also a program called xwdconvert (in bin${MACHTYPE}) which takes an x10 window dump on standard input and puts an x11 window dump on standard output. It is not terribly advanced, but worked on almost all of the images in the directory (there were some problems with those that had strange borders.) To avoid directly offending people (though there is no obvious reason to, my First Amendment beats your prudishness any day :-) there is a subdirectory `girls'. It should be obvious what is in here, and most of the file names are descriptive... they are NOT all offensive, but the offensive ones are in here. I am quite willing to make an equivalent `boys' directory when someone produces images. As for adding to the collection: just send me email telling me where to find the picture and what format it is in; I will take care of adding it, if it is or can be mutated into a compressed x11 window dump. Have fun! Mark Eichin --[0097]-- (nref = [0098]) [0098] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/31/88 03:15 (2 lines) Subject: Re: The pictures you've all been waiting for... Cool Mark, real COOL!!! --[0098]-- (pref = [0097]) [0099] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 01/31/88 08:33 (19 lines) Subject: Pictures ... New and Improved 1) Given that the pictures are now becoming widely distributed, I went through all the dumps and redid the X11 conversion. EVERYTHING is now in the proper X11 format, with no need for inverse video. The old converted pictures had a few bugs. 2) I've converted the entire bitmap collection of Concourse Computer Center to X11 window dumps (~70 pictures). 3) There is now a set of pictures for admirers of the male form. All in all, about 90 pictures have been added. The latest set of files is in E40-388-1:/site/sethf/dmp and E40-388-1:/site/sethf/dmp/boys. This version should supersede all earlier ones. ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu --[0099]-- (nref = [0100]) [0100] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/02/88 15:24 (2 lines) Subject: Re: Pictures ... New and Improved The files have been installed; the boys directory is there... the README file has been greatly updated. --[0100]-- (pref = [0099]) [At this time, Steve Lerman was the Director of Project Athena] [0101] wesommer@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/03/88 16:58 (26 lines) Subject: An article from Steve Lerman. Forwarded without comment (yet).. This was sent to the `athena' mailing list recently: ------------- To: athena@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Cc: MROWE@SLOAN.MIT.EDU Subject: removal of an offensive locker Date: Wed, 03 Feb 88 16:13:35 EST From: Steven Lerman I received a complaint from Mary Rowe, Special Assistant to the President about the contents of a locker on one of Athena's servers. The complaint originated from a group of concerned students. The locker contains bit-map images, some of which are pornographic. After checking the contents of the locker and discussing it with some of the staff, I have decided that much of the contents are inappropriate material to distribute using the Institute's resources. The material is being made inaccessible for the time being. Not all the images are offensive. I would welcome efforts to delete the questionable portions of this material. Steven Lerman --[0101]-- (nref = [0102]) [0102] mcampos@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/04/88 00:44 (30 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. An initial opinion: it sounds like Steve Lerman is gunning for another Tech article with this one! While I can see why Lerman & co. are concerned about the use of *staff* resources (the locker was on a staff machine, and not personal filespace), I find this an upsetting precedent. Can the Athena staff delete material from a student's locker without his permission? If the material is pornographic or otherwise offensive, and world readable, is this an improper use of Institute resources? I understand that the only *formal* limitation on Athena resources was that they were not to be used for commercial gain (i.e. developing programs for a business). I wonder how many students today have readable files that others would consider "smut". Will we have a daemon searching for all the dirty words from people's files and closing them off if they're readable? I think the xpix locker was put together in excellent taste (good pictures, too!) with care taken not to inadvertenly offend people, by placing the "questionable" pictures in sub-directories. My idea for a response: concede (since these *are* staff resources), but place the "boys" and "girls" pictures in student lockers outside the staff cluster. (Volunteers?) Leave instructions in the README file for how to access them. I'd like to see the Athena staff tell a student what he may and may not store in his personal locker; the Privacy Committee will have a fit! Marc --[0102]-- (pref = [0101], nref = [0103]) [0103] wesommer@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/04/88 00:54 (10 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. I think that it would be better if the pictures stayed as a single unit; just so that someone can't be attacked for having _only_ pornography. The general consensus among SIPB members is that it probably wouldn't be wise for us to do it (putting them into /mit/sipb), since the resulting heat would percolate up to Jim Bruce and possibly cause friction between his office and SIPB (which we _don't_ want to do). Is there any other place we can put them? (this smells of the way in which ``fortune'' was deleted from the standard Athena system a while back..) --[0103]-- (pref = [0102], nref = [0104]) [0104] paul@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/04/88 02:10 (2 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Athena *and* Porn? This is the Tech's fantasy issue, isn't it? --[0104]-- (pref = [0103], nref = [0105]) [0105] mcampos@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/04/88 02:36 (9 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Perhaps the GNU Project might be able to accomodate this information without a home? About fortune: Athena deleted it a while back, but after all, it was "assaulting" everyone on login. (Someone decided fortune would be neat to put in the standard .login) The X pictures assaulted no one but those snoopy enough to look at their neighbors' screens.... Marc --[0105]-- (pref = [0104], nref = [0106]) [0106] ilham@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/04/88 04:43 (27 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. This is the limit. I spent a considerable amount of time modifying my .uwmrc file to incorporate *all* the pictures and now all gone for no reason. That says a lot about Athena. How can one go about deleting directories just for the heck of it. After all the not-so-decent-pictures were kept in sub-directories (named boys and girls) so if people didn't want to see them then they didn't have to!! As for me, I really **DON'T** mind the pictures at ALL. And I have seen no-one put these pictures on their screen for more that enough time to glance at it and then click it away! I would love to see the Athena Staff's faces (those concerned that is) if the pictures are moved to a student locker which is publically accessible. Hmm...porno pictures... how about all those famous painting with nude pictures (worth millions), perhaps we should trash all of them (if we ever found any) as they too are immoral! Well, enough for now. I am too sleepy to say anything else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S A Y N O T O C E N S O R S H I P ! ! ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --[0106]-- (pref = [0105], nref = [0107]) [0107] jtkohl@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/04/88 09:47 (2 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. One small nit; the files/directories were not deleted; they were only made inaccessible. --[0107]-- (pref = [0106], nref = [0108]) [0108] rlk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/04/88 15:11 (45 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Well, I'm not an Athena staffer any more, but to the best of my understanding I am a member of the MIT community (alumnus) and as such I feel compelled to comment. Neither Steve Lerman, Mary Rowe, nor anyone else has any business whatsoever deciding what is or what is not "appropriate" for storage in an individual's locker. While it may be reasonable for Lerman to keep them off Athena- managed resources (i. e. system-wide resources that are represented as official Athena services), it is certainly not reasonable to keep them unavailable on the grounds that someone may be "offended" by them. Aside from the fact that simple nude pictures are hardly legally obscene (a bad enough concept in its own right), mere offensiveness has never been grounds for censorship in the US. Unfortunately, my locker is on Eurydice; if it were on a "user" machine, I would be quite tempted to store these bitmaps on my own quota, purely to make the point that freedom of speech may not be arbitrarily restricted simply because some individuals may not wish to listen. I think it would be useful to know who the "group of concerned students" consists of. While Project Athena is scarcely a court of law, it is still very hard to answer anonymous accusations. I am also concerned by Lerman's comment that "I would welcome efforts to delete the questionable portions of this material." This suggests that the preferred means of dealing with unpopular ideas is to suppress them. I would hope that the director of an organization such as Project Athena would have a better understanding of history and civics. I am disappointed that SIPB is more concerned with relationships between itself and Jim Bruce than the implications of this censorship. Here is one associate member who does not agree with the consensus, if it is such. Is it possible to export charon:/mit/rlk? I could probably store 1 Mbyte of images. BTW, while the fortune command was moved simply because it was hitting people on login, the fortune.dat files were made non-readable for reasons that were never made entirely clear. More than once I made them available to others in order to reduce the load on some of the 750's (a common tactic was to write a script that would continuously run fortune into a file, increasing utilization of disk and CPU resources). The concept of denying the people the opportunity to express ideas that are "offensive" or "inappropriate" is very scary. The implementation of this concept as a policy is very dangerous. Do we never learn? --[0108]-- (pref = [0107], nref = [0109]) [Another person's reaction via mail:] Date: Wed, 10 Feb 88 02:29:05 EST From: Joe Harrington To: lerman@ATHENA.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: Steven Lerman's message of Fri, 05 Feb 88 09:24:33 EST <8802051424.AA08936@E40-391B-1.MIT.EDU> Subject: the xpix locker Cc: jh@ATHENA.MIT.EDU, sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU, eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Reply-To: jh@ATHENA.MIT.EDU I believe your decision to censor the contents of the xpix locker was a bad one which can have a major effect on the future of information rights both here and at other institutions, both now and in the future. I base this statement on two premises: 1. NFS lockers are non-intrusive: no lockers are attached by anyone other than the user, except the user's own locker, over which (s)he has complete control. The default state of any Athena workstation does not include involuntary access to the allegedly offending images. If a user wishes not to view material (s)he deems offensive, (s)he is protected from this. To view such material, a deliberate procedure must be followed by the user. Access is off, so no one can do it to the user's workstation remotely. 2. No endorsement of the inoffensiveness of the contents of NFS lockers is given or can be given by Athena. Athena has not claimed responsibility for the contents of any locker. Doing so at this juncture (which is what your action implies to me) cannot possibly help Athena in future cases. If I had a locker belonging to me which is not my personal locker (as is the case of xpix), and filled it just with particularly conservative or liberal political writings (or, to model the xpix situation, both), the contents would definitely be offensive to some. I would argue that they would be offensive to more people than the xpictures. Yet would the deletion of such writings be justified? I don't think so. The locker is not Athena's any more than is the locker named jh. There are several types of NFS lockers. Personal lockers are obvious, and their contents should not be touchable by Athena. There are also lockers belonging to organizations, like the sipb and esg, which should have similar status -- the internal government of those organizations should decide what may or may not be stored there. There are also the lockers of Athena-internal projects, like the smsuser, fixes, and zephyr lockers, and you can exercise whatever control over these lockers that you wish; working for Athena is voluntary, and bothered employees may talk to you, and have the option to work for someone else if they continue to disagree. According to long-standing policy, there are no Athena-endorsed, user-controlled spaces. If Athena provides no endorsement, Athena should also provide no control ("No taxation without representation" is a reasoning in the same class). There are personal and organizational spaces given out which are not the automatically attached filesystem of any userid. You are saying that these filesystems are subject to censorship, but the others are not. I feel this is a very arbitrary distinction. Those filesystems (class lockers, lockers like esg, sipb, and xpix) are still the space of some responsible entity, and are therefore in the realm of MIT's disciplinary structure, NOT Athena's. The locker was not an Athena locker, as you state, since it was not part of any project running as an internal part of Athena (like the smsuser, fixes, and zephyr lockers). Here is an example of a similar situation where I think your reasoning would be different. A group of people get a locker for use in a Student Art Association course on drawing and the human form. (Such a course exists, but as far as I know, they do not use computers (yet)). They put into this locker a number of images of famous nude paintings. Should they be allowed to do this? If so, the only reasons can be if 1. their status as a funded ASA activity raises them above the moral restrictions placed on individuals or 2. their proclamation of the nude as art somehow qualifies their images as non-offensive. The first denies the premise that we all live under the same law, and the second is a decision which is at a level of arbitrariness that only the COD has a right to decide. If, on the other hand, they may not put these images in their locker, then Athena has decided that their activity, even though it has been an established and accepted part of the MIT community for years, is not clean enough for Athena. The SAA is granted institute resources in the form of both money and building space in the Student Center every year, and their program includes the exposure of minor females to the male nude, for the purpose of creating, on paper, the sort of images you deem too offensive for an organizational space on Athena. The Project for Student Summer Theater (PSST), another project given institute space and money, two years ago put on a play involving a nude male. The institute clearly does NOT deem such art inappropriate for the MIT Community, and therefore Athena has no basis to exercise its censorship. Furthermore, while both the SAA and PSST advertized widely on campus and on Athena, the full procedure for attaching and viewing the offensive pictures is not included in any Athena literature. The reason that Athena gives out lockers to individuals and small organizations for projects like the xpictures is that it is convenient and saves space. These bitmaps are large (I believe we are talking about 25 megabytes here), and most people could not keep more than a very small number in the limited space Athena grants to them. In such a case, the bitmaps are spread out over a large number of users, the information gets scrambled and lost track of, and the censorship results in the loss of these images. Though you say that you don't want to become a general censor, yet that is exactly what you are setting up. I believe your action was the wrong one to take, and that it should be rescinded as quickly as possible. --jh-- [Athena Strikes Back] To: staff@ATHENA.MIT.EDU, athena@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Subject: the xpix locker Date: Fri, 05 Feb 88 09:24:33 EST From: Steven Lerman I have received numerous comments about the removal of the xpix locker. I have been answering these individually up until now. Given the level of interest, I thought it would be useful for me to circulate what is evolving into my usual reply. Here it is. ********** My decision to remove the material rested primarily on the fact that it was coming from an Athena locker instead of some individuals'. I see an important distinction between what MIT as an institution distributes and what individuals keep in their own files. I have a strong desire not be become a general censor. I also don't want to be an enforcement agency. My general position is that while Athena as an organization shouldn't distribute materials that offend significant portions of the MIT community, we shouldn't be an arbiter of what other people chose to keep in their own storage. I recognize that this position encourages creation of multiple private copies rather than a single, publicly supported copy. I think that is a reasonable cost for having private behavior remain private. (An imprecise analogy is that while I don't think libraries are obligated to add patently offensive materials to their collections, I would defend anyone's right to collect the material for their own use.) If people want to keep copies of things in their private directories, my position is that MIT should not interfere. If others are offended by this, then the usual recourses at MIT (ODSA, Committee on Discipline, etc.) should be used. My tendency would be to argue in favor of allowing the material to be stored by individuals. Experience with the MIT policy on LCS movies suggests that we as a community find this area no easier to regulate than the Supreme Court has. I would be unwilling to work on formal guidelines to define what is and isn't obscene because such efforts inevitably fail. I'd welcome your comments. Feel free to circulate this among interested parties and stimulate discussion. I've even given some thought to holding an open forum on this issue. It might promote a better discussion of this age-old issue. Steve Lerman [0109] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/04/88 15:45 (23 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. This is yet another example two wrongs creating a mess. The first wrong is that people used these pictures as their root window on public workstations (when screensaver comes on, EVERYONE can see your root window ... even across the room). Folks who wouldn't have ordinarily been exposed to objectionable images complained. (Quite frankly, I feel the people who complained aren't being reasonable--if you see something you don't like, then look somewhere else). Instead of offering examples of appropriate behaviour, Steve chose to eliminate the opportunity for future offensive action. Not only does this not fix the problem (people who found bitmaps they liked probably copied them into their lockers anyway, since there really is no reason to attach xpix for just a few pictures), but it offends our (for our == "the users") sensibilities. Instead of talking about how wrong or inappropriate Steve's action may have been, let's come up with an alternate solution. -- Henry -------- --[0109]-- (pref = [0108], nref = [0110]) [0110] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/05/88 13:07 (3 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. I will ``deal with'' the situation (if not later today) sometime after the weekend. I am going to Talbot house (Yaay!) in a few hours and will see no bitmaps for a while. --[0110]-- (pref = [0109], nref = [0111]) [0111] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/05/88 18:54 (9 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. I probably shouldn't get involved in this, but... :-) I can understand Lerman's position. First action is suspend access to the questionable bitmaps, then search for a better solution. Now, I have no problem with your (generic) putting any pictures you want in your windows, provided I don't have to see them if I don't want to. But public workstations in a public cluster is a problem. And so, the battle between your rights and mine goes on. *sigh* --[0111]-- (pref = [0110], nref = [0112]) [0112] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/05/88 21:47 (9 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. if you don't want to see objectionable (foo)s, then don't look. if you don't want to watch a particular show because you find it objectionable, then you change the channel. if you don't want to see potentially distasteful text or graphics on my display then don't look at it. this works every time. --[0112]-- (pref = [0111], nref = [0113]) [0113] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/05/88 21:51 (8 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. No, it doesn't work every time. (a) In a public cluster, when one looks up from one's workstation, one often sees many others. There's no way to avoid this. (b) In order for me to determine that I don't want to look at your screen, I have to see it in the first place. --[0113]-- (pref = [0112], nref = [0114]) [0114] csmith@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/07/88 18:56 (4 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Thank you for saying that, Andrew. Though it's obvious, I don't think anyone has thought of that. --CJ --[0114]-- (pref = [0113], nref = [0115]) [0115] rlk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 11:22 (2 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Gak. I don't think it's any worse than wearing a "provocative" t-shirt or swearing in public, both of which are reasonable things to do... --[0115]-- (pref = [0114], nref = [0116]) [0116] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 11:28 (3 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. I'm not so sure either of those are reasonable... or responsible. I don't swear; I don't wear provocative T-shirts; and it >does< bother me when other people do in public. --[0116]-- (pref = [0115], nref = [0117]) [0117] rlk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 11:34 (7 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. I'm not saying it doesn't offend other people; I'm just saying that there's no good basis for restricting it. Offensiveness is not sufficient to restrict free speech, from my point of view. Only a clear and present danger (gak...how on earth do you define this?) of identifiable harm is sufficient. At least that's how I see things. And I just don't see how wearing a provocative t-shirt, swearing, or displaying pictures on one's screen constitutes a clear and present danger. --[0117]-- (pref = [0116], nref = [0118]) [0118] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 11:37 (9 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Offensiveness is not sufficent to restrict free speech, you're right. Provided that I have the option of turning off some connection between the "free speech" and my brain --- before I get offended. Some people read Playboy and Penthouse. I don't. That's fine with me. If someone walked around with centerfolds taped to his chest I'd be offended. The issue isn't whether or not you have a right to look at what you want. It's whether or not that right supersedes my right to look at what >I< want. --[0118]-- (pref = [0117], nref = [0119]) [0119] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 11:55 (8 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. and besides ... it wouldn't be a provocative t-shirt if someone weren't offended by it -- h ---- --[0119]-- (pref = [0118], nref = [0120]) [0120] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 11:57 (1 line) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Good point. :-) --[0120]-- (pref = [0119], nref = [0121]) [0121] ambar@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 11:58 (7 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. "provoke" is not necessarily a negative verb. I'm with Andrew on this one. AMBAR --[0121]-- (pref = [0120], nref = [0122]) [0122] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 11:59 (16 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. sure you do--you just don't look. being offended by casual observations of images you don't like is ridiculous there are many objectionable things i have to see every day; if i were to get all hot-under-the-collar and offended by them i would get nothing else done. hardly a productive way to spend a lifetime . . . (if the image persists, then you have to consider another question: are my tastes in the minority? if they are, then you have to act accordingly...) --[0122]-- (pref = [0121], nref = [0123]) [0123] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 12:01 (8 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. I'm not sure if we're using "offended" correctly... I don't feel like I've been personally insulted, and that "I'm gonna knock his block off." I do feel disgusted, annoyed, et cetera. I have as much of a right >not< to see something as you have to see it. --[0123]-- (pref = [0122], nref = [0124]) [0124] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 12:04 (6 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Just a random thought... There's probably a law in Massachusetts against public display of these things. ...just a random thought... --[0124]-- (pref = [0123], nref = [0125]) [0125] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 12:12 (19 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. you do retain the right to not see something. i maintain the offense you feel upon casual observation of these images is (perhaps) out of perspective as described here. it is a ridiculous notion that you can arrange your life such that you never notice anything offensive, however. if you find yourself noticing images of a particular type very frequently, you should examine your feelings on the issue (and contrast them with the standard view on this issue with the community in which you live and work). in short, this is a personal issue. -- h ---- --[0125]-- (pref = [0124], nref = [0126]) [0126] epeisach@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 16:50 (10 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Regrading there probably is a law against distribution of pornography. It exists as distribution to minors. Yes there are minors at MIT and therefore on Athena. (Although I feel it should be the user who decides on what to have on their screens - Some like background tiles, other's don't.) -Ezra --[0126]-- (pref = [0125], nref = [0127]) [0127] treese@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 18:21 (12 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. (This came up briefly, but it's important.) Prof. Lerman removed access to xpix as a temporary measure until the issue could be resolved. With Mary Rowe involved, the issue is a serious matter. As I understand it, Steve is willing to discuss it to reach a reasonable solution. I suggest that cogent messages to him on the subject will be welcome; flaming in this meeting or in the hall won't solve the problem. - Win P.S. Of course, I don't speak in any official capacity here... --[0127]-- (pref = [0126], nref = [0128]) [0128] jtkohl@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 21:48 (1 line) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. But this is the "Athena_Flames" meeting--set up specifically for flaming :-). --[0128]-- (pref = [0127], nref = [0129]) [0129] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/08/88 22:33 (37 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Henry- Are you suggesting that if my values conflict with the majority's, that they are wrong? This is a dangerous attitude, especially from one who is combatting censorship. As I see it, there are two issues here. The first is "Should these files be stored on Athena space, as opposed to personal space?" I think that all are agreed that Athena can decide that Athena will not be the source of these files. I also think that we all agree that whatever someone has in his personal filesystem is his business. The second, and apparently more controversial issue, is whether one person's right to see something supersedes another person's right not to. The United States has an FCC that controls generally accessable media, i.e. broadcast television on the VHF and UHF bands. The FCC does not, to my knowledge, prevent the Playboy Channel from showing whatever it wants on Cable. The difference is that the former might be come across inadvertantly by someone who is "channel-switching," while the latter is only seen by subscribers, i.e. people who have *requested* that signal. I don't see the xpix situation as suppression of ideas. We seem to be having a totally normal argument about censorship, nudity, etc. without Steve Lerman or Mary Rowe making discuss non-readable. What I see as being done is a setup whereby unless someone actually *wants* to see these pictures, he (or she) won't. Not on the screen next to him, not on a screen as he walks by, not anywhere. I am firmly against censorship. Even when people say things that I find offensive -- as in causing insult to me -- I support their rights to say those things (e.g. Louis Farakhan). But the xpix directory's questionable entries did not contribute anything to the forum of ideas; it did not serve any educational purpose. In short, go ahead. Look at whatever you want. Do whatever you want. Just don't make me do something that I don't want to. --[0129]-- (pref = [0128], nref = [0130]) [0130] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/09/88 04:41 (39 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. I do not suggest that your values are wrong if they conflict with those of the majority. I do suggest you "act accordingly" in the hope you would obtain some relief Appropriate actions might be to (a) change your values, (b) desensitize yourself, (c) seek another community whose values are more in line with yours. The issues are confused; for instance, what constitutes "Athena space?" Is "Athena space" any filesystem which resides on staff cluster hosts? Certainly the hardware is all owned by the Institute; does this make all the DASD out there "Athena space?" Is the net-directory "Athena space?" Of course the Project can decide what to make available (or to not make available); the question "Should these files be stored on Athena space, as opposed to personal space?" can't be answered until we know what "Athena space" is. The FCC doesn't necessarily prevent the Playboy Channel from exhibiting the programming of their choice because television cable systems are largely regulated by local agencies (the folks who award cable franchises), who often *do* permit/prohibit a cable TV system to/from carrying certain channels. Furthermore, your example is a bad one because cable television is not universally available (even in Boston) and therefore, people *don't* have the choice. I feel your ideal situation is impractical. It also doesn't reflect the true state of the universe, in which you get to see things you might find distasteful every day. (By your statement, street people shouldn't be permitted to continue as they do because their presence is potentially disturbing). A "live and let live" (within reason) strategy to this is easier to implement and benefits us all. It is obvious that you feel the "questionable" entries under /mit/xpix do not contribute anything to "the forum of ideas." However, you aren't an objective judge of this; others may feel that they do add to the "forum of ideas" or that they do have an "educational purpose." It is presumptuous to know everyone's purpose and usage for those images. --[0130]-- (pref = [0129], nref = [0131]) [0131] rlk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/09/88 16:37 (6 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. What does "educational purpose" have to do with this? Must everything be directed toward some "educational" or otherwise "productive" purpose? What's wrong with just doing something for fun? Remember, the First Amendment says nothing about WHAT speech may not be abridged... --[0131]-- (pref = [0130], nref = [0132]) [0132] henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/09/88 18:12 (5 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. i suspect the "educational" or "productive" purpose is tied to the fact that MIT's resources are being used for this, and it's hard to justify non-productive usage of said resources. --[0132]-- (pref = [0131], nref = [0133]) [0133] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/09/88 18:20 (45 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Re: flames... I agree with jtkohl. I WANT to see flames here; I really want to hear LOTS of opinions before I make a real statement somewhere that matters... Re: cable tv... The archdiocese of boston (roman catholic church) OWNS the cable distribution system running off of the Prudential, and demands prescreening of anything they send out (I have heard that this is actually something blocking running a network feed to the frats over the microwave links up there... they couldn't preview someone copying xpix over the net :-) Re: whose locker space... Will moving them into private locker space make a difference? From the sounds of amgreene's argument, even having them in MY directory on CHARON (NOT on the xpix directory I have on priam, and NOT in my watchmaker homedir on priam) would not make a difference. What if it were encrypted? People who wanted the pictures could ask me for the password... or perhaps, get a group set up, make them group readable only, and those who wanted them could get me to add them to the group... What if I stop distributing them? Then, people will get them from sethf individually, and we will have megabytes of space used for multiple copies of these pictures... they just won't be in a central place, so people can't censor them... is that ANY BETTER? On another tack... how would it affect things if a woman had them in HER home directory? Would that affect the flaming any? Re: not looking at them... [flame about this one, but NOT TO ME PERSONALLY] Hmm. I understand that you have to look at them to know that you don't want to see them... what are you doing reading over my shoulder anyway? In ``polite company'' that is considered extremely rude. Of course, if we had polarized anti-glare screens we have the problem, since you'd need to look at the screen head-on to see it... We are doing pretty well with the flames here, I will take them into consideration. For the moment the top level are readable again, boys and girls are not until I come up with a ``solution'' that is acceptable all around. Mark Eichin SIPB Member & Project Athena ``Watchmaker'' --[0133]-- (pref = [0132], nref = [0134]) [0134] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/09/88 18:23 (24 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Yes, Henry, that is why I said "educational" and "productive." What I meant by "Athena space" as opposed to "personal space" is quite simple: erato:/mit/amgreene is personal space. I have 600K to store whatever I want. /mit/athenadoc is Athena space. These issues are never cut and dried. Take Selective Service registration. What constitutes a true "consciencious objector?" The Supreme Court has set aside certain guidelines, among which are truly held beliefs; this is supported by beliefs of established religions. I feel reasonably certain that that distinction could be made between nudes and "street people." New York City, for instance, has a law prohibiting scantily-clad people from publicly-displayed magazine covers. So the magazines are sold in paper wrappers, and nobody is worse off. How does this sound for a solution (based on the smoking/no-smoking sollutions)... Set aside certain workstations, e.g. the bank in the Student Center on the Mass. Ave. side, which noone can see unless he is in that area. Clearly label this area the "Nude pictures permitted" area. Then neither your freedom to show what you want nor my freedom not to see what I don't want will be abridged. --[0134]-- (pref = [0133], nref = [0135]) [0135] amgreene@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/09/88 18:29 (20 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. No, Mark. What you have in your own space is fine. I don't even mind Athena officially supporting this. That, as I see it, isn't the issue. Neither is looking over your shoulder. If what you had was a really lurid story on the screen, then the only way I could see it would be to intentionally read the contents of your emacs window. As you said, that's rude. But it's not the issue. The issue is what happens when you have /xpix/sluts/orgy displayed as your background (forgive my rhetoric) and you walk away from your terminal for five minutes, letting the screensaver kick in. Or even intentionally removing all your windows, or moving them out of the way. Don't tell me that when you enter a cluster you don't glance around the workstations looking for one that has a black screen with one line of text on it. That's how >I< look for an empty machine. Or should I close my eyes and feel my way around the room, asking ``Is anybody using this workstation, assuming that I'm in front of one?" until somebody takes me by the hand to one? --[0135]-- (pref = [0134], nref = [0136]) [0136] jtkohl@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/10/88 00:01 (5 lines) Subject: Re: An article from Steve Lerman. Re: Cable TV Mark, I believe the story is that the Archdiocese (sp?) owns the FCC licenses for the various microwave frequencies, and that they are very picky about who they 'rent' them to. Someone did successfully wrestle a license away from them through a court battle. --[0136]-- (pref = [0135]) [0137] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/19/88 00:03 (20 lines) Subject: Pictures ... New and Moved Pending the resolution of the censorship debate, I will be keeping the full xpix collection available. The X pictures subdirectory has been changed from E40-388-1:/site/sethf/dmp to E40-388-1:/site/sethf/xpix to lessen confusion (a link will remain for awhile for compatibility). The entire set is readable - there are no restricted subdirectories, for two reasons: 1) sorting is an annoyance, and of questionable justification 2) anyone who goes to the trouble of ftp'ing these can't claim to have been unknowingly offended. I've added ~50 new pictures, almost all from the xmac collection. For a time these will be in E40-388-1:/site/sethf/xpix/new, before moving to E40-388-1:/site/sethf/xpix. A substantial number are 'explicit'. Again, don't look through this directory if you are easily offended by the human form. ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu --[0137]-- [And that has been the situation, at least up to 9/01/88] [0138] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/23/88 12:17 (9 lines) Subject: Porn & Athena - The Tech's fantasy comes true! Take a look at the front page of today's Tech - fantasies happen. All in all, despite a few slight errors, it's a reasonable article. ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu --[0138]-- (nref = [0139]) [0139] jtkohl@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 02/23/88 14:33 (2 lines) Subject: Re: Porn & Athena - The Tech's fantasy comes true! I was impressed with how well their portrayal fits my recollection of the turns of events. --[0139]-- (pref = [0138]) [0150] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 05/09/88 20:59 (15 lines) Subject: Uncensored xpix collection needs a new home Due to some changes I don't want to explain here, the private xpix collection soon won't be accessible from its current location. Does anybody out there have about 15 Meg to spare for a (in)famous collection of images? If not, they'll probably be a lot harder to find in the future. Send queries and replies to sethf@athena.mit.edu . ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu sethf%athena.mit.edu@mit-eddie.UUCP mit-eddie!mit-athena!sethf --[0150]-- [And then, one day, there was this:] XPIX is gone. The 5.1M of diskspace is going to more productive use. If you are still interested in the pictures, send mail to Seth Finkelstein who is still maintaining a collection on E40-388-1, currently. To get to his collection: ftp e40-388-1 (username) anonymous (password) guest binary cd xpix get picturename.Z The xroot program will still be available from here for a while. Mark Eichin SIPB Member & Project Athena ``Watchmaker'' [0154] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 08/11/88 20:27 (12 lines) Subject: Ex-pix (Death of public xpix) In the README for what once was public xpix, eichin writes: XPIX is gone. The 5.1M of diskspace is going to more productive use. Anybody know more details? ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu --[0154]-- (nref = [0155]) [0155] eichin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 08/11/88 22:15 (50 lines) Subject: Re: Ex-pix (Death of public xpix) /priam/slush, the disk partition that held it, has 168,261K available total. The partition is shared between a number of things, including the following `official' filesystems: /mit/watchmaker (lots of useful but unstable stuff) /mit/andrew (evaluation version of the CMU Andrew toolkit, editor, and other tools) /mit/StaffTools (the libraries used for the next release, so that developers can work with them early) /mit/kcldev (development locker for Kyoto Common Lisp stuff.) /mit/lens (the information lens project - a way of managing mail and other message-based information.) /mit/vtk (??? some toolkit, I guess...) /mit/musedev (development locker for Muse, a new language for developing graphic courseware) Also there are full X11 server sources, for Terry Donahue's efforts to speed up the X11 server (it now does text much faster, and bitmap stuff at about the speed X10 used to -- it might even get into a release in the spring.) A few smaller projects use it for file space as well. The Zephyr document that will be available in the release locker was temporarily there, NFS sources for the next release, lists of all uses of printf in the 4.3 source tree (for the RT release, to figure out how much space we can save by shrinking printf... about 1M of data) As I originally stated, /mit/xpix was *not* supported, and could go away if the space were needed for other things. This has happenned. In any case, I have gotten only two messages (no, actually, two VIOLENT BADMOUTHING FLAMES) complaining about the loss of xpix. Note that I have only gotten about 40 mail messages concerning xpix, mostly requesting access to the girls/ or boys/ pornographic directories. There have been a number of questions in olc about it, though I don't know how many. I would guess that the development work would benefit more people, both short and long term. So, Seth, did you ever find the space you were advertising for in your plan file? Mark Eichin SIPB Member & Project Athena ``Watchmaker'' --[0155]-- (pref = [0154], nref = [0156]) [0156] sethf@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Athena_Flames 08/12/88 19:29 (24 lines) Subject: Re: Ex-pix (Death of public xpix) *Sigh*. I find it vastly disappointing. But if space pressures from other projects really were the reason for the demise of public xpix, as seems to be the case, I have no complaint. The results of the .plan advertisement were one (count it, 1) response, from jtkohl (Thanks!). That's discouraging. I haven't tried to transfer private xpix yet, as its hosts hasn't disappeared, though it always seems to be on the verge. I don't know how to gauge the popularity of xpix. I haven't seen a day when there were no ftp's to private xpix, and there were 39 today (as of 8:20pm). But mail is infrequent. Unfortunately, I'm in a hospital with a badly broken leg due to a car accident. So I cannot devote much time or resources to preserving expanding xpix. Perhaps this is the way xpix dies. Not with a ban, but from a wiper (pun on "not with a bang, but with a whimper"). ================ Seth Finkelstein sethf@athena.mit.edu --[0156]-- (pref = [0155]) [On Dec 11, 1988, the following README file appeared in /mit/xpix:] XPIX is BACK!! You will find picture files in /mit/xpix/pictures. In the near future you will be able to add your own contributions. -Jeff Schiller Manager, Athena Operations [Actually, only a subset of xpix was back - those pictures deemed to be inoffensive.] [Then, on May 4, 1989, the collection was reborn on a new machine] Uncensored xpix returns! It is now living on frumious-bandersnatch.mit.edu (18.62.0.51). This is a PRIVATE machine, so please do not flame Athena. To get access, type the following: attach -n -m /mit/XPIX -e bander:/site/xpix cd /mit/XPIX Then read the various information files. Grab copies of any files you want NOW! I have no idea how long this version of the collection will exist. The machine changes administrative control on July 1. Enjoy... ================ Seth Finkelstein Creator of xpix sethf@athena.mit.edu [Over the summer of 1990, frumious-bandersnatch underwent upgrades that resulted in it having much less disk space. Since no other space was forthcoming, uncensored xpix died another quiet death.]